Quiet Community...

[rdent]

Yes the boards are very quiet these days.

IMO...the owners of these copters are not just avid weekend flyer's wanting to video make cool videos.
To put down the money on the X6 ... we owners have much higher commercial expectations that we are focused on.
We are not 'fun' flyer's with the Draganfly....I have other planes for that....Most, if not all, of us are invested to EARN money with this rig. It is our SOLE purpose for the extravagant purchase.....

There are plenty of 'chatty' r/c photography sites out there which
do provide an interesting insight into our profession....
But they are mostly playing.....
I, and most X6 pilots are not ...playing.

This in not a political bend, but our economy is in such a state, that the commercialization of something even as unique as the X-6 and its ability....is extremely difficult to market. I know myself and several other X-6 colleagues are trying, with little success, to sell our services in the real estate, tourism, sporting areas. All of those industries are CRUSHED right now for revenue. They are not only NOT buying unique aerial photography, they are not buying ANY photography....in some cases. Again...IMHO...I think our X6 community is just stunned and quiet.... in the face of our difficulty trying to show the world the great photography we can provide.
Not saying IMPOSSIBLE....
Just sayin.....

[icarus]

Hey Rod,

Not sure if this is a response to my comment in the other thread about the X6 discussion group being "dead"? I'm not sure why things are so quiet here, however I don't see a correlation between being professional and a lack of discussion? Perhaps there is a lot of networking behind the scenes that I'm not aware of between X6 owners? Everyone I've contacted has been nothing but helpful.

I've seen your website, and appreciate your aerial photography. Is there a reason you don't showcase any aerial video on your website? I honestly don't have an agenda, and simply want to do my due diligence in finding the best platform for aerial video.

Initially I was very excited about the X6. The more I looked the more I realized that there simply wasn't much X6 video out there, even on their websites? Talking to X6 owners, there was a theme of dissatisfaction. I won't list the issues as there's a popular thread dedicated to it. In fairness to Draganfly it's not unreasonable that there will be issues, and it sounds like they are working with their customers as best they can.

My question is, what justifies the high cost of the X6? What can the X6 do that the Mikrokopter can't? Why is there loads of video popping up all over the web that's being shot from the Mikrokopter and very little from X6.

When we heard the performance issues X6 owners were having, we hoped that the X8 would solve a lot of those issues? From what I can tell there aren't significant improvements? I've seen great video from the canon 5D...unfortunately the Draganfly can't handle the payload, or the wind, or there are issues with the camera mount/vibrations? Where's the beef? What are we paying for? It sure looks nice.

I'd love it if someone could list reasons why the X6 is a better choice than a mikrokopter, because frankly even if they were the same price, I would probably opt for the mikrokopter...and that's quite a statement.

I understand some of the challenges of marketing this new service, and I wish everyone nothing but success in their business ventures. It's good that this forum is active so that prospective owners understand that there are obstacles involved. Draganfly's website gives the impression that getting video is easy with their technology...obviously it isn't. Even if you get incredible footage, you might not be able to find someone to buy it.

Looking forward to more discussion.

[airphoto]

Icarus, it hurts that your information is not real which takes away a bit of credibility to the subject, but yes.

is true, the expectations of video you had on the x6 are a total disaster, I have complained infinite number of times and always the problem is my driving style is not that the assembly of the camera is poor if I I feel disappointed, not that users of this computer does not come together to discuss the issue with the manufacturer because the cost was very high and the results are terrible, I had the opportunity to work with TV channels, but the quality is so contrived that immediately rules out the possibility. we're going to do, or Draganfly gonna do to improve this situation, today I would not recommend this computer or x8 anyone.

[rdent]

Icarus:

These are tough decisions....what to buy or not buy.
2 years ago...the X6 was the state of the art for tri-quad copters.
If you wanted to get into the aerial photography biz, this was the best there was....
As with anything, time and technology have caught and surpassed the abilities the X6 sold itself on and Draganfly is most likely going to have to deal with that sooner or later. I can't speak for the X8...at first look it is everything one would want...
But what is going to come out 2 years from now is any ones guess.
Having been with Draganfly for this long, through many different software and hardware upgrades to perfect the X6...I can say with confidence that the folks in Draganfly are a dedicated and professional group of people that truly want to make a success with this copter. They are always accessible, and eager to help with support for any problem you might have. These are not 'fly by night' organization and will be around for a long long time.
This is a very important factor in my decision making.
These machines are so complicated and can so easily go astray...that I am comforted by the fact that there is almost always some available immediately to talk with and resolve my issue.
Regarding the video....I haven't shot any myself.
I have the high def vid camera, thinking I was going to start shooting Golf Courses etc. but found the market just wasn't there for me. I am sure there is a market somewhere....But if you are going to go hit up some local course for a full edit, 18 hole video with voice over, sound and music bites, etc....It is going to cost them some serious $$$$. Besides the complication of the shoot...the weather, wind, lighting, course conditions, course schedule etc....there is a HUGE amount of post production that goes into creating a decent production which is just cost prohibitive to most courses. So...I stuck with simple still photography....I go out...take my shots...do some post production photoshop work and present the course with some options for buying my photos and how to use them ....cost them a few dollars and move on to the next.
In this day and age, the simplest , most cost effective option is the only one that is going to work....9.9 times out of 10.

And for this....the ability to put a camera up over the top of golf hole and provide an interesting perspective..'heretofore unseen'....The X6 is the platform...
My formula is simple.... I go up...right over my head usually....take a load of shots ....bring it down.....drive to the next hole.

The video is great.....don't get me wrong ....but the marketability of video is a whole other animal....
How are they going to present it....sell it...show it.....
Unless you can present a highly produced, photographed and edited film...it is useless.....regardless of what helicopter you use to film it....The filming in fact if way down the list of important knowledge you need to have.

Photos are simple....still images are EVERYWHERE.....easy to show
easy to market, easy to produce and most importantly affordable.

Again....just sayin.....

[icarus]

Sept 2, 2010 16:47:55 GMT -5 airphoto said:

Icarus, it hurts that your information is not real which takes away a bit of credibility to the subject, but yes.

Hi airphoto, thank you for being so honest about the situation.

Are you suggesting that because I don't own an X6 it hurts the credibility of my inquiries? I don't pretend to know much about the subject, but everything I learn points me in the opposite direction of the X6. It would seem that your experiences support that conclusion?

The expectations I have for X6 video are only what is being sold to me at the draganfly website? Surely it's not unreasonable to hold them accountable for the claims they make about their products performance?

I'm trying to avoid buying 26K worth of draganfly equipment that is potentially less functional(for aerial video) than a 10K mikrokopter+ canon 5D . Seems like a reasonable line of questioning, no?

[icarus]

Hi Rod,

Thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed well thought out post.

I can certainly understand that it is not easy to sell expensive video in today's economy.Wouldn't a golf course use video footage as a centerpiece on their website?

We are located on the west coast of Canada, and liked the idea of dealing with a Canadian company for service and customer support. What do you think of the advantages of Mikrokopter being open source? Do you think this will be a more useful model in keeping up with a technology that is changing so quickly?

Anyhow nice to see some activity on the boards. I'm glad you have been happy with the customer support you're getting from draganfly innovations.

If you were starting over, would you buy a UAV Rod? If yes, which one?

[rdent]

Icarus- love the name by the way....

short response to my long response which I must have misposted.....sorry if it re-appears.

All I know... is that when it is TIME, the weather is calm, the sun is coming up with the promise of a perfectly lit morning ...


When I get out that X6 ... the batteries MUST be reliable... the rotors MUST be perfectly syncronized.....the GPS MUST work undoubtedly.....the camera MUST work precisely.... the video down link MUST work perfectly....the goggles MUST work decently...to even hope for a commercially successful photograph of anything....
If any one of these things fail....you will end up fighting that failure at the expense of a good photograph....
If any two of them fail....you go home...mission failed.
Dangerous either way...

I have seen the videos of the microcopter et al.. and I must say they are impressive...

Knowing all that goes on and the tolerances of what must be met to fly/shoot these 'platforms, on a daily basis, I can't imagine a company able to satisfy the customer service needs of its pilots
better than Draganfly....and service is a huge consideration with such delicate equipment...especially if you want to keep it running flawlessly for profit....

I have 450 flights in the X6 and know its characteristics better than most....ish....It doesn't handle very much wind....{No craft this light does} You must fly on very calm days....

I have 0 flights on any other photo platform helicopter to be able to compare...they had just better have the staff available to solve the costumers daily concerns because there will be many.
SHOUT OUT to Cory and the guys and gals at DF!!

At this level, Tech support is Absolutely Essential in taking and making RC aerial photographs/video for a living. If you are just screwing around for art sake....you might be fine with something less. But if you intend to make a living with an RC camera...
You must have Excellent support.

Wherever you are looking for a copter....
Lean heavily on support issues....
Feeding you diamonds here.....

Just sayin....

[icarus]

Hey Rod,

I do appreciate your advice and your insights, and understand that you are speaking from practical experience.

Perhaps the X6 is suitable for solo still photo work, but not useful on collaborative video projects. I have no intention of paying 26K for the functionality that you describe. No amount of customer service could compensate me for having an expensive UAV that only works under the most perfect of flight conditions...that would be almost useless for professional work?

Maybe the UAV landscape will change and draganfly will develop the technology that is practical for aerial video. Until I see evidence of that happening I will look elsewhere for my aerial platform.

We will be ordering our UAV next week, and I look forward to posting about our experiences if you guys are interested. I'm not expecting things to go smoothly, or for things to be easy. I can live with failing, but I expect to have an opportunity to succeed...and I'm not sure that those who purchased an X6 had that opportunity?

Why doesn't draganfly post here? Were they asked not to? Would it be unprofessional or a conflict of interest? Again, I'm new to all of this...but I would welcome their input to all of our concerns.

Good luck to everyone.

[rdent]

Icarus:

I am just saying the 26k you will be paying for IS for the functionality that makes everything work at the moment that you need it to .....I don't know if microcopters lower price will pay for the functionality that is required. The margins are very narrow....
As I said before.....one.... two things not functioning....and it is a done day, nothing shot, nothing gained.

The copters functionality is EVERYTHING.

And again...I am not saying DF doesn't have its video s**t together. I just have never used it....or any software associated with making a good video production.

As a still photography aerial platform....it performs perfectly....because of its exhaustive... functional characteristics.

I may be 'blinded by science'....
but to create a nearly autonomous flying machine that sends a real time moving image to a pair of goggles and awaits your photographic command....
Is asking allot....and must have taken alot of time and energy to perfect and warrant.
DF has been in this technological game for a long time. Gathering information, investigating issues, creating solutions necessary for we, the end users, to be able to functionally fly and shoot when, where and how as needed. Again, that is what is important to all X6 owners.
I DON'T know about any other copter companies...
I DON'T know how deep their knowledge base is.....
I Don't know how dedicated their staff is...

They may be equal or exceed that of the Canadians, it is up to you to find that one out....

Keep us all posted......

[kamarul]

Icarus,

Let us know how you get along with mikrokopter. I might be getting one too.

But that doesn't mean my x6 is a lemon. It's all about fit for purpose. X6 is wonderful in calm environment - indoors and low wind condition. And most surprisingly it brings me job due to the high tech look and price factor. My clients think and appreciate that I am a serious professioanl with serious investment. Whether or not I will use the x6 is a different matter altogether.

So yes indoors, x6 is the only platform I dare use. Outdoor when it's windy and for fast speed car chase for example, I use my Trex 700 e carrying 5d mark 2 (actually it can even carry 16 lbs payload!) and achieve speed approaching 80 km/h. Can I use it indoors and when there are crowds? No way at all! So it's all about fit for purpose.

We can whine all we want that the x6 doesn't meet all our purpose. It wasn't designed for that. Of couse I wished it can handle the wind better but that's about the only grudge I hold.